Joe O'Reilly: Save Rural Schools, Cut Class Sizes

call on Senator Joel Riley. Thank you László Comhairle and welcome Minister and to acknowledge the the good work that you have been doing in your department and I wish to raise an issue of enormous importance to rural communities across County Cavan, which is the future of our small primary schools and the need for greater investment in teaching posts and reduced class sizes. As a former primary school teacher, an INTO branch chair and a regular delegate to INTO Congress, this is an issue close to my heart. Indeed I first entered Seanad Éireann in 1989 with an INTO nomination on the cultural and educational panel. Because of that background I understand the challenges facing teachers, pupils and school communities today. I have been contacted by teachers and local communities who are deeply concerned about the future of schools such as Corlaigh National School in County Cavan in the east and Cornaigh National School in County Cavan, Moor Centre area. These schools, they're classic examples, but these schools are much more than places of education, they are the heart of their communities. The Irish National Teachers Organisation has highlighted the growing pressures facing primary education. According to figures confirmed by the Department of Education and Youth, for 119,823 children approximately 80% of all primary school pupils are currently in classes above the EU average size of 16 pupils. In addition, 996 teaching posts remain unfilled, while 7,864 substitute teaching positions have been covered by personnel who are not fully qualified teachers. Now having made that point, I do want to acknowledge at this juncture, Minister, that consistently for over the last 10 or 15 years this government have been, and the previous governments, have been reducing the pupil-teacher ratio and I want to acknowledge that. But that's not a reason not to want to make further progress, but it is important to acknowledge that it has consistently been the case in the worst of times. These figures that I've cited a moment ago should concern all of us. They highlight the urgent need to reduce teacher-to-pupil ratio in our classroom. As a former teacher, I know the smaller class size allow for more individual attention, earlier intervention and when difficulties arise, and better outcomes. The INTO has called for the recruitment of a thousand additional primary teachers in Budget 27. At its core, this proposal is about reducing the teacher-pupil ratio. Every additional teacher means more support for pupils, particularly those with additional needs, and less pressure on already stretched staff. The challenge is particularly acute in rural Ireland, as I said, to keep small schools open. Under current Department of Education staffing arrangements, a small drop in enrolment can result in the loss of a teacher post, and that's where the kernel is for these small schools that are the heart of our communities. And again, schools, as I say, such as Corneille and Corneille, that have multi-grade classes, they have combined classes, so it's important that that's sorted out. So I asked the Minister to examine greater flexibility within the staffing allocation system for small rural schools, and to give serious consideration to an INTO proposal for a thousand additional primary teachers in this budget. So fundamentally, flexibility there would matter a lot. Every child deserves the opportunity to thrive, whether they attend school in Dublin City Centre or a rural school in County Common. Reducing teacher-pupil ratio should be a national priority, and we have a responsibility to ensure the schools, such as the ones I cited, continue to provide the attention, support and quality of education that every child deserves. Thank you very much Senator O'Reilly, and I do appreciate the question. And I suppose, if I could just outline in the opening statement that I have, the Budget 2026 provides for a total of £13.1 billion investment in the Department of Education and Youth Services, and that's a 7% increase on last year. The budget provides for an increase of £845 million in core funding for education and youth on the figure allocated for 2025, while the total investment figure also includes £1.6 billion allocated for the 2026 as part of the National Development Plan 2630. This funding reflects the Government's continued commitment under the Programme for Government to ensure that every child and young person can learn, thrive and reach their full potential. It builds on the progress made in recent years, while recognising that further work is needed to make education more inclusive and equitable for all. Teacher numbers at primary level have reached the highest ever level in the current school year. Currently there are over 43,000 teaching posts allocated across the primary school system. This represents an increase of just over 5,000 teachers compared with the figure of 2019-2020 school year, and this has led to a steady improvement in the pupil-teacher ratio and the average class sizes during this period. In recent budgets, prioritisation was given to reducing the number of the pupil-teacher ratio in primary schools, which brought the teacher allocation ratio to an average of one classroom teacher for every 23 pupils in all primary schools, the most favourable ratio ever seen at primary level. A three point reduction in the retention schedule, which was introduced in 2021, assists schools that would otherwise be at risk of losing teaching posts. The DASH Urban Band 1 includes DASH Plus. Schools receive an additional allocation of 17 to 1, 20 to 1 and 19 to 1 for junior, senior and for vertical schools respectively. The latest figures in relation to the pupil-teacher ratio shows that an improved ratio of pupils to teachers from 15 to 1, to 12, 8 and 1 at primary level, when compared to the 2019-2020 school year to the 2024-25 school year. The average EU pupil-teacher ratio is 15 to 1. This includes all teachers allocated to a school as a ratio to the number of pupils enrolled in that school. The difference in the allocation of special education teachers to homeschool liaison and other teachers who are not mainstream classrooms in the schools, while these teachers provide valuable supports in school, they do not impact on the class sizes. In the same five-year period, the primary staffing schedule improved from 26 to 1 to 23 to 1 and the average class sizes at primary school have improved from 24 to 1 to 22 to 1. The government has significantly invested in schools and in our teacher workforce over recent years. The programme for government commits to making further progress in this area with an aim to reducing the general pupil-teacher ratio at primary level to 19 to 1 over the term of the government. So I do take the points that you have raised, Senator, in terms of the pupil-teacher ratio and it's one of the key goals and in your opening comments you said that it improves the outcomes for children. It's the important piece that the government are constantly looking at is how are we making it better for children going through primary school and post-primary school and I suppose with all of education it is to equip them with the best tools they can for entry into adulthood versus post-education and the fundamentals are the education system and are crucial in that. So I take the points but I may refer on the staffing schedule which I might respond to that in the closing statement. Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you, Minister. I appreciate both your presence and the very positive nature of your response and I want to acknowledge that. I do also want to acknowledge progress made and if I might just make a little human aside, just an aside, I spoke about my attendance at INTO congresses down the years. A very excellent delegate attending those conferences on many a day with me was the dad of Senator Nasa Cosgrove who will be speaking later. He was a very distinguished delegate and he was then a very distinguished INTO member and delegate. So to acknowledge that in that context. So that emphasizes the youthfulness of her still, how young she is. But anyway, to go back to the point, I suppose, Minister, I acknowledge progress but still to say to you we need more and what I'm asking you to is that we'd have a commitment and a practical implementation of the next budget for the reduction in class size, an emphasis on the training and recruitment of teachers to fill vacant posts. There's a real lacuna there in the number of available teachers and not having a substitution all the time and untrained personnel in some instance, in many instances. And Minister, and I know this is close to your own heart, if there could be a look taken at how we accommodate the small schools in rural Ireland, how we build in the flexibility while not going to ridiculous levels obviously, nobody is suggesting that, but how we build in a sensible flexibility that would maintain our small schools. Thank you. Thank you very much Senator. I suppose in a lot of the, the first point is in relation to the progress being made on the pupil-teacher ratio and how we are going to continue on that in the lifetime of the government and the commitment in the program for government. And I suppose, in the challenges on the staffing schedule, which go back many years in terms of the 30th of September and the roll number on 30th of September, and we do have to have a very clear guidance in terms of the staffing schedule. And you know, I do see the merits on occasions when people, when schools are just shy of that by one or whatever, but you know, to keep the entire education system, like as I said in the opening statement, there's far to 3,000 primary school teachers within the primary school system at the moment. So we have to be very mindful that that 30th of September and those numbers, you know, are built into the pupil-teacher ratio and we have to walk to them. I suppose the other point you made in relation to teacher training, and thankfully still right throughout the education system, there's a huge amount of people that are willing to go to teacher training colleges and to go do education. And that builds on, you know, the great education system we have and the teachers who work within it over many generations and have led to enormous benefits for Ireland. And thankfully there are young people who are quite willing to see education and teaching as a career as well, and long may that be the day continue. But yes, I do understand that the small rural schools, but it's also important, you know, that there, in some of the urban schools as well, numbers would be an issue with it. But I do take the points and reflect very carefully on the points as we go into the budget cycle that has started with a number of weeks just to engage with it. But our commitment in the Programme for Government is very clear where we need to get to in terms of education. Thank you. Thank you very much, Minister.