Ken O'Flynn confronts Minister over stalled public service pay talks

Minister, the public service pay agreement expired on the 30th of June with no successor in place. CYP2 have now announced that they may ballot over 80,000 members for strike action across the health sector, the Gardaí, sorry not the Gardaí, but local authorities and educational sectors. The ICTU public service committee has said that it has no basis for any formal talks to begin. And unions have pointed out, and rightly so, they've pointed out the inflation at 3.6% in May, which has already wiped out the 1% increase from February and the 1% increase since June. As you're aware, Minister, grocery bills are up on an average of about 40%, our energy bills are hitting up about 60%. We have over half a million people or approaching half a million people in arrears when it comes to ESB and gas bills. We have rent at a record level height, unthinkable of almost a decade ago, with 80% increases in some areas across the state. This directly affects the nurse, it directly affects the Gardaí, the hospital porter, the educator, and those in the low-paid salaries in local authorities. The people who get up early in the morning, the people that your government claims to represent with great gusto. You, Minister, and your government says you want agreements when it says to, but not at any cost, as I understand from reading reports today, and you say that there can be no preconditions. But after seven days after the deal has expired and still no date of substantive talks, we're looking at a country in the middle of an EU presidency with a real possibility of industrial action across both the health sector, the education sector, local government, throughout the entire summer. Minister, will you tell the House today what is the government's action and timeline for opening formal negotiations with the unions, and looking after the public sector pay? Or whether your department intends to bring a concrete pay offer to the table, and when will those table negotiations start? Or will you continue your approach that we've already worked out, that has no basis for talks whatsoever? Thank you. Deputy O'Flynn, and what I've said, and I'm going to repeat it, we've been clear and consistent in our position, we're willing and ready to engage with staff representatives with a view to reaching a new public service agreement. We want to engage now. We want to see a fair, equitable and sustainable agreement to ensure we reward workers across the public service, many of whom have been recruited over the last five years. And government considers that reaching an agreement as soon as possible is the best way to provide stability and certainty for both public servants, but also to ensure that we can accommodate a new pay agreement within Budget 27. So we've, in the first instance, like other pay agreements, we've sought to have exploratory discussions without preconditions, and they're intended to provide a forum for both sides to raise concerns and explore respective solutions around the next phase of an agreement, rather than to predetermine outcomes before meaningful engagement has taken place. So you've asked me what pay offer are we tabling? That's never how pay discussions are concluded or even how they're advanced. There has to be wider engagement around what's possible, what the respective asks are on all sides, and try and put a structure around a process of engagement, which can take a period of time. I'm clear that we want to accommodate a new pay agreement within the budget. We've done that over the last series of budgets, and correctly so, with increased recruitment across the public service. The reflection of that, if you take the public pay bill, is €31.2 billion in 2026, which reflects a government that's actually advancing and expanding public services across the state and ensuring that we're remunerating our public servants in accordance with the pay agreements. That's reflected in €12 billion for health, for example, around public pay, €8.5 billion in education, and over €2.5 billion for the justice vote group. So that reflects the strength of Exchequer support for public services and the public servants that work to deliver across the front line. And what we're seeking to do is have those exploratory discussions. Local bargaining has been concluding over the last number of weeks, and again, we want to use the period over the next number of weeks to provide that stability going into 2027 and conclude a new pay agreement. Thank you for your reply, Minister. Minister, I've had relative success in business throughout my years. I can confidently say if I ran my business the way you are approaching these negotiations, I'd probably be out of business today. That's the reality of it. Minister, we're now, as I said, seven days after the expired deal. We should have been at negotiation tables about six months ago to ensure a smooth transition, in particular in a time where this country, with great gusto, as your government has said, is supporting the presidency of the EU, to ensure that there wouldn't be strikes and to ensure that there wouldn't be anything. We're now putting the horse before the cart yet again, and you're playing catch-up continuously, Minister. Minister, I have to say, this is affecting nurses, doctors, the staff of hospitals. It's affecting the Gardaí, it's affecting the front-line workers, the lower-paid people that we depend on in local authorities. As one of the members have already said, these are the people that are not coming back, that are leaving in their droves because there's no future, there's no stability. Without a plan in place for them, knowing where their plan is and knowing what funds are available for them, they can't plan for the future. They're not going to come back, Minister. We're seeing strong levels of recruitment right across the public service this year, and a very different story to what you've described there. We had the conclusion of the pay agreement with a 1% increase over the last number of weeks, and usually when there is a conclusion, then we engage in exploratory discussions. Typically, in the past, this has happened in the December-January period. The pay agreement that concluded has finished at the end of June, and we want to engage in good faith in a constructive way and ensure that we have an agreement that we can afford in Budget 2027, again, that supports workers right across the public service. This government has a strong track record in the expansion and improvement of public services in health, in education, in disability services. That will continue as part of Budget 2027. It's just a matter of getting this engagement going over the next number of weeks and ensuring we get an agreement that's fair and, again, supports many of the workers that you've referenced in terms of nurses, teachers, and ensuring that they have a fair deal in the context of new pay agreements. That's something this government is committed to delivering.