Paul Murphy Challenges Minister on Abolishing Sub-Minimum Youth Wages

Minister, in the run-up to the last election, you promised to abolish sub-minimum wage rates for young workers. The question is, when are you going to do it, or is this going to turn into another broken promise to workers and young people alongside the weak sick pay, alongside the promise for a living wage? Thank you very much Deputy Murphy. Minister? Thank you. First of all, I am not aware of me making any such promise, so I want to be clear on that. The national minimum wage acts for lower or sub-minimum rates of minimum wage for those employees aged 20 years and younger. Those aged less than 18 years can be paid 70% of the full minimum rate, while those 18 and 19 can be paid 80 to 90% of the full rate respectively. As the Deputy is aware, the Low Pay Commission recommended the abolition of sub-minimum rates in March 2024. The Low Pay Commission highlighted in its report that this is a very complex issue. They have said Government will need to give their findings and recommendations, detailed consideration and deliberation, and they highlighted the potential need for Government to take its own legal advice on the matter. It is also important to acknowledge that the challenges in the enterprise sector has faced over the last number of years. We know that the use of sub-minimum youth rates is largely concentrated in accommodation, food and retail sectors, and that these sectors have reported facing considerable cost pressures. As part of the measures designed to bolster business resilience and support competitiveness earlier this year, the Government agreed to defer a decision on the sub-minimum rates until 2029. The decision should be considered in the context of the recent significant increases in the minimum wage, which show that the Government are continuing to commit to fair wages for the lowest paid workers in our economy, but also in the context of the Government's introduction of a range of measures to assist workers, including the statutory sick pay scheme, the right to request remote working and additional other supports. It is also important to highlight the very real progress we have made in rising the national minimum wage over recent years. Since 2020 the national minimum wage has increased by 33.7 per cent, from €10.10 to today's rate of €13.50. In 2024 there was a significant uplift of 12 per cent, over €1.40 in the minimum wage, and this year the minimum wage increased by €0.80, over a 6 per cent increase. Both of these increases were well ahead of inflation and projected wage growth in the economy, and brought about substantial real wage growth for the lowest paid workers in the economy. I think you just said that you weren't going to do it until 2029, or would consider it at that stage, if you can clarify that. I mean that's incredible. I mean we introduced a bill to get rid of this in 2022, it was passed at second stage, to get rid of this legalised super exploitation of young people in 2023, but with a timed amendment, because then the government said there is a low pay commission report, we have to wait for that. The low pay commission report came out then a year later in 2024, and it was absolutely clear, it was unanimous, that you should get rid of this super exploitation. At that stage the government said, I remember the committee meeting, we are going to have an economic impact report that was last September and said it would take six to nine months. There is still no sign of that new economic impact report kicking the can down the road, but you are now saying that you are going to 2029 and won't even give a commitment to do it, and saying to young people, if you are a 19-year-old you cannot pay 90 per cent of your rent to your landlord, if you are an 18-year-old you cannot pay 80 per cent of your grocery bill, if you are a 17-year-old you cannot pay 70 per cent of your petrol prices. It should be noted what the commission actually said in relation to the sub-minimum rates, not exactly what you quoted. It said the recommendation was in relation to wage rates for employees of 18 and 19 years of age should be abolished no sooner than January 2025. Secondly, I did not make any commitment, as you said at the very outset, that I would abolish the sub-minimum rates. Thirdly, I think it is very important to be aware that about five per cent of 19-year-olds are receiving sub-minimum rates, so the majority of workers in those cohorts are above the level of the minimum wage. When you look at critically the increases we have received over the last number of years, they have been ahead of wage growth in the economy and they have been ahead of inflation. When you put that with the supports we have brought in from the statutory sick pay scheme, increasing the minimum wage, banning zero-hour contracts, introducing tips legislation, bringing in auto-enrolment from the first of January. What you have asked in another question is to bring the minimum wage up to 17 euro, about a 30-odd per cent increase in the minimum wage, which is about six times the growth rate of wages in our economy. What that would do to this sector, along with auto-enrolment increases and others, you would leave this country without any jobs. And that is because, Deputy Murphy, you have not an iota of what it takes to run the enterprise economy, you do not know what it means to employ people, you do not know the value of the 2.81 million people that are going to work every single day in your country, and the policies that you are bringing forward absolutely close down the enterprise economy. Minister, your bluster will not disguise what is a viciously anti-worker, anti-young person policy. Minister, you are saying that 19-year-olds, 18-year-olds, 17-year-olds do not deserve to get the minimum wage, an inadequate minimum wage in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. You are saying people who go to work, do the same work as the workers next door to them, who happen to be a little bit older, and they are not entitled to the minimum wage. 15,000 young people, you are saying no chance of getting the minimum wage until 2029. That is scandalous, Minister. And I will repeat the point. If you are 19 years of age, you cannot pay 90% of your rent. If you are 18 years of age, you cannot pay 80% of the grocery bill. If you are 17 years of age, you cannot pay 70% of the price of petrol. You think it is okay for employers to super-exploitate young people by paying them less than the minimum wage. The Fianna Gael agenda is absolutely exposed. It is disgusting policy. Thank you. First of all, I am very proud of the role in government that we have made in improving the rights of employees. You go and talk about rhetoric, and like every decision you put across to us, it is binary. You do not look at the potential impact it would have on education and pathways for younger people and what unintended consequences you can have there. You do not look at training. And when you point out that in relation to people on it, in relation to 19-year-olds, 18-year-olds, I can tell you right now that 5% of 19-year-olds are not on sub-minimum weights. That just shows you the opportunity that is in our economy and the pathways that are currently there. And everything has to be taken around. I can demonstrate to you the year previous 12% increase in the minimum wage. Ahead of wage growth, ahead of inflation. Sub-minimum rates also get increased. The same last year. And we plan to continue the trajectory of increasing conditions for workers. But also, I have a responsibility to make sure those jobs are there. When I look at my corner shop in a small village that is really struggling at cost, and you want to increase their costs to €17 per hour, that is the effect this would do. Let us be clear about it. That is the effect this would do. You would close down every small business in the country if you had your way in running this country. You do not have any balance and you do not know what it means to keep good, high-value jobs in our economy. Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Deputy. Okay, we're