Mattie McGrath Challenges Lobbying and Resignation Claims
Mattie McGrath challenged answers on a £200 million contract, Cabinet confidentiality and the application of the Lobbying Act, defending his conduct and denying he sought ministers' resignations. He said the duty to register lobbying lies with lobbyists, rejected claims he made demands on the Taoiseach for support, and described allegations about his relationship with Dr O'Toole as untrue.
Lobbying and contract concerns
McGrath raised concerns about a contract he said is worth over £200 million and questioned how Cabinet confidentiality and the Lobbying Act interact with disclosure of documents. He emphasised his position that the responsibility under the Lobbying Act is on the person carrying out the lobbying to register, and noted that as a TD one is lobbied frequently and does not have the same registration responsibility.
Demands and resignations
He was asked whether the Taoiseach had made any demands of him for continued support; McGrath said he made no demands and that the two were getting to know each other and working together. He denied any role in seeking the resignations of two deputies, saying the leader of Fianna Fáil handled one matter and that he learned of the foreign minister's resignation when he woke up one morning.
Friendship and Dr O'Toole allegations
McGrath addressed claims about his relationship with Dr O'Toole and a published photograph from a Pride march, rejecting insinuations as untrue. He characterised Dr O'Toole as part of his wider social circle rather than a close friend, saying they had met briefly on two occasions in the last year and disagreed on Covid strategy; he also noted Dr O'Toole's involvement with Safety Net, which provides GP services for the homeless, Roma and travellers.
Legality and final stance
Responding to a comparison to a Nixon moment, McGrath said he was not suggesting illegality in actions by the Taoiseach and reiterated his view that what was under discussion was not illegal. Throughout his speech he firmly disputed the innuendo and insisted the accusations against him were incorrect.
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Go ra mā ha gud, Count Cawler. Teachta, I am surprised with a lot of the answers. This contract has worth over £200 million. Cabinet Confidentiality and, indeed, the Lobbying Act, I would have thought would have prevented you from sharing confidential documents. Teachta, in the first instance, has Teachta Michal Martin made any demands on you for his continued support and that of his party? The Deputy hasn't made any demands on me and that's not the way we operate. We're getting to know each other well, getting to work well together and I make no demands of him and he makes no demands of me. Just in relation to the Lobbying Act, the responsibility in the Lobbying Act is on the person carrying out the lobbying to register that. As a TD, you're lobbied all the time. You have no responsibility to register that. I imagine you never do or never have. the responsibilities on the person carrying out the lobbying to do so. I have once or twice. Yes, I have. Teachta, do you accept that if the Fianna Fáil and the Greens, if there weren't in such a dismal situation, that this government would have collapsed? In fact, you would have collapsed it by now and your actions, when you have got the head of two Fianna Fáil ministers for very little misdemeanors, namely Cown and Caleri. Thanks, Deputy. First of all, I don't and secondly, the premise of your question seems to suggest that I in some way sought the head of Deputy Cown or Deputy Cleary. I absolutely did not, absolutely did not when it came to Deputy Cown. That was a matter that was handled by the leader of Fianna Fáil in the way that he thought was best. When it came to Foreign Minister Caleri, I found out one morning when I woke up in bed at eight o'clock that he had resigned. So the suggestion that I had any role in seeking their resignations is just not correct if that is going around. That is absolutely untrue. Yes, Teachta, you would suggest that you have a different range of friends. Some are distant friends and some are absent friends and some are friends at the time being. I just have a picture on my phone here of you and Dr O'Toole involved in a certain match in Dublin in 2019. Very close context and very good friends. Dr O'Toole used you as a puppet and I actually believe now that you did not even know he was using you as a puppet. The amount of money he involved makes one think about the children's hospital and you were actually signed on off of that site. It makes one think about the broadband and how Deputy Knottlin was forced to resign there as well and the contracts there. So I am very concerned, Teachta, very, very concerned. So maybe you might answer that about the way you were used by Dr O'Toole if you say he is not your friend. Dr O'Toole, The Village Magazine did produce a photograph of us at Pride March. I am not sure which one it was. We all know the innuendo here. We all know what it is. We all know it is a big part of what was there in the article. What is there in line and it is not true, Deputy. I know what is being said. It is not true. This is somebody who is not a close friend. Somebody is a friend. Somebody is in my wider social circle. I would say we have met twice in the last year. Once at a Christmas drinks thing over a year ago. Once when six people went out to dinner and he was one of the six and I was one of the other six. We would be in touch on other things. He is very involved on the issue of Covid. We do not have the same mind on Covid by the way. He supports the zero Covid strategy. I am sceptical about that. We would talk about that. He is involved in Safety Net, which is an organisation that provides GP services for the homeless and for Roma and for travellers. I have gone out with them on that. That is it. It really is. You said he was not your friend. Would you accept that you are having an Nixon moment? When the president does it, it is not illegal. When the Taoiseach did it, in your opinion, it is not illegal. What example is that given to the rest of government, as Deputy Tobin said, and to our country in general? It is not illegal if the Taoiseach can get away with it. Deputy, that is not what I am saying at all. I am saying it is not illegal, full stop.
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