Mattie McGrath Questions Invoice Practices Linked to ASTOS and RTÉ

I'm delighted to meet you upstairs, I'm in the Cooppa, Ryan, and you asked me about the badge, and your late granddad was with Lee mentioned, and as was your father, obviously, and look, if you're out of job Friday, which you seem to think you might be, be welcome down to retrace the first steps and maybe make a film, yes, of course, come on, use your time wisely, come on, you're telling me, taking the opportunity, but sure, look at, we're here now, welcome our guests, welcome our guests, and thank you for coming in. Mr Kelly, regarding the invices made out to ASTOS, is it really legitimate for us to expect, are you to expect that we are in understanding the reasons why you were advised to make false invices out to ASTOS, and do you find being asked to submit an invite to ASTOS as unusual? Mr Kelly, I think, as I said, with the antenna up now, you'd certainly question at the time, we didn't question anything, it was in instruction from ASTOS. Have you ever had dealings with ASTOS in the past, or has Mr Tuberty been paid through ASTOS accounts in the past? No, never, never. Mr Kelly, how many companies have you used to invite RTE for Mr Tuberty's salary? I have two companies and Mr Tuberty's accountants' invoice for RTE. Do you now accept, Mr Kelly, that you created false invices, even if RTE asked you to do so, that this is actually complicity in a potential financial fraud crime aiding and abetting? No, we didn't raise any false invoices, we just raised exactly what was asked of us by RTE. But we now know that they were legitimate, they were different. At all times we thought Renault were paying the invoices, Renault paid the first one, and our assumption was Renault were paying the other ones, but again, it was always under instruction. Why would the invoices be made out by a sister company, CMS, instead of MKA Management, and address to a UK company in ASTOS, and which company accounts are these payments reflected? Sure. We invoiced, both companies could invoice each other, as in NK or CMS. ASTOS again was under instruction from RTE. So you just took your instructions lightly. One, who exactly in RTE requested a false invoices be switched to another known Kelly company? That was page 25 from commercial. And why was not an old Kelly company so willing to create false invoices? Has nobody ever been paid by CMS in the past? He could have been, yes. He could have been. It could have been a CMS event or an NK event, it would depend. Could have been. And they would go to his company. And why was it necessary for France's invoices to be switched to another newly created company of yours, Mr Kelly? Again, it was under instruction from RTE to send the invoice as stated. Can I ask, Mr Kelly, are you fully tax compliant now? Oh, completely. Completely. Always have been. Could I further ask to the Chair, have you ever had arrangements with offshore companies to keep your tax? Not at all. We're a small company. We're not RTE, 350 million. We're a small company. Okay, that's your answer. Mr Tuberty, do you now have full faith and full confidence in Mr Kelly to continue to be your agent after all has come out at this stage? Yes, I do. I think that he's explained himself. I think he has at all times produced a paper trail where it was necessary. So, yes, he's always had my back in the 20 years we've worked together. So I have no reason to say anything other than that. But like we're trying to create a new, get everything out and do open, start off with respect to all the employees and RTE and all the listeners. Yes. I mean, people out there don't. So I mean, but you endorsing Mr Kelly now, it's very hard for people to understand that. After five's invoices, albeit you were asked to give them, but you didn't ask why or what. I think, Deputy, that I would hope that after today people would look differently at the story. But I would also say to call them false invoices probably doesn't, is mudding the pitch a little bit. They were never false invoices. They are not false invoices. But they were made out for things that they weren't supposed to be. What do you call that? Under instruction from RTE. So I said that, aiding and embedding and deception. That's false. That's false. I mean, aiding and embedding. Please don't. We have some level of intelligence. So, Mr Tobey, over the last decade, were you ever an employee of RTE? No, I think I was a sole trader, so I'd be just operating. Contractor. Sorry, yes. And Mr Tobey, who do you work for? I mean, why do you work for RTE via that sole trade operation company? It's a fair question. And as I recall it, RTE along the way decided that people like me, whatever that means, working at a certain level within the organization doesn't make you better than anyone else, but just makes you probably better paid for sure. I think they wanted us. Is that right? To go sole trader. So this is not, sorry to say, this is not my wheelhouse in terms of detail, but that's what they said, go sole trader. And I did. And I'm in a position where my tool in life is words, and I've never been good with numbers and so forth. So I have an accountant, I pay him. And I have an agent, I pay him. And I kind of hope that they put it all together for me, and they have so far. We all have, Mr. Topley, we all have private business and accountants and we sit down and we have to answer all the questions and be sure. Oh, I know. I'm not. That's why I'm here. I asked to be here. Can I ask you, Mr. Topley, what are the typical tax benefits of working for RTE, the production company as you are? Again, do you know the answer or is that an accountant's question? Again, all the independent contractors sell hours of service. As Ryan said, 205 hours of radio, 38 two hour plus shows on the Late Late Show. And that's what they're selling their time. They're independent contractors. They've no union, they've no pension. They have you? They have me. They have me. And I have a duty of care to my clients. You have. I 100% have and I am absolutely— I accept that. But it stretches credibility like that Mr. Topley doesn't understand any of the things that are going on. Well, I'm sorry to stretch the credibility, but it's a matter of fact. And I would also say what else said there about duty of care. He actually cares about my head and how I'm feeling about the world, despite everything, in a way that— I appreciate that. So do we all. There's not a lynch mob here. That's true. We all do. I know that. I wouldn't invite myself before a lynch mob. I know it's not that at all. I fully respect what's happening here. But I just feel sometimes that there's an issue with people's health. When a company as a council signed off, people have to take responsibility for the council, notwithstanding what their accountant tells them. You have to know that everybody is right and proper and before yourself and your maker. Mr. Topley, could I ask you? I do value my children and grandchildren love the title. I did have one issue during the COVID with the whole Pfizer job, the child being used in that way. I thought it was terrific to sell Pfizer and promote them. Do you have any benefit, financial or otherwise, from Pfizer? Mr. Deputy, not in the slightest. Actually, that was all done in a way that was not meant to be political or scientific. It was just on its day. It was meant to be satirical, frankly. So, no, never got a benefit from Pfizer, no. Mr. Never? Mr. Never. Mr. Never. Mr. Our teachers got all the benefits. Mr. You can toss them that on Thursday. Mr. I accept. We have to get answers out of them and friends. Mr. Well, that's the difference. Mr. We are more forthcoming. Mr. Well, I appreciate that. Mr. Look, and all that's gone on since now, and as I said, the finisher duties of the board, Manny McGonnell, like, all wasn't well there. So, I mean, how does that fit with you now? I know that you've been getting a lot of criticism and all that, and I'm delighted that you're getting so many cares of goodwill, and we wish you goodwill and good health. Mr. I appreciate that. It's been a very difficult three weeks, and I know life is hard for a lot of people in Ireland. I'm not trying to be any more special than anyone else, but when you're publicly cancelled, the way I've been, it has not been easy. Mr. I can appreciate that, and your family as well. I appreciate it, and we think there are good wishes to them, as I said. It's people out there during that time, especially with suffering such huge cuts to their income. This is a small business basically wiped out. Wiped out. Mr. I totally understand that. Mr. It's a bad work, and the fact that they weren't getting the proper— Are you sorry now that you didn't correct the figures when they were published? Mr. From the get-go, the very day, well, the day after this whole statement came out, I said that, yeah. I'm sorry about that. Should have said something. Yeah, but— It's a mayor called, but deputy. I appreciate that you're putting your hands up. So, look, as I said, so you still have full confidence on Mr. Kelly. Yes, I do. He's my friend. I appreciate that. I don't expect your pictures to be upset, but on a human level, I think I find it very hard to accept the false invices. They were not invices for the purposes that they were there. They were created by different companies and changing a separate company again. And that is not standard practice for anybody. You couldn't buy a truck like that, as somebody had said. You have to get an invoice for a truck, not for a dunking cart or something like that. It has to be a truck. All under instruction. Thank you, Deputy McGrath. You can't use that instruction to be just— Ask no questions. What is it? Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. You have to have some— Thank you, Deputy McGrath. You have to trust, Deputy. You have to trust, Deputy. You have to trust. Yeah, for sure. We know now where the trust values are. I know, and it's easy to— It's easy to know now. It's easy to know. It's easy to know now. Yeah, but you can't. You don't, in business, take everybody at their work because you have to be sure you can send it up and the invices are legitimate. Thank you, Deputy McGrath, and appreciate your clarity with your questions. You have run out of time and I've given you latitude. Is that— — — — — —