Paul Murphy urges action on fire brigade resourcing and high-rise safety

Thanks, Clearlach. First of all, thanks a lot to Deputy Donnelly and Sinn Fein for bringing forward this good motion that, of course, People Before Profit supports. It is obviously, coincidentally, a very good day for such a discussion, in the sense that it is very clear for people who are watching their news, watching their social media feeds and so on, the hard and dangerous and vital work that has been done by people in the Dublin Fire Brigade and fire brigades right across the country. How essential it is, is being underlined, and obviously not just in terms of fighting fires. I welcome the fact that the Government is not opposing the motion, that's good, but obviously we want the motion to actually be implemented, and I do fear that the Government has decided, with some good reason, with some good reason, that the best way to avoid controversy on issues in here is just to allow motions to pass, in general. The Government has heard my own response. I did, I did, I did. I don't doubt your seriousness. But people could, for example, track, and it is a general point about how the Government has responded to motions. It is clear that about six months ago or nine months ago they decided, we don't want all these pictures of us voting against stuff that people think is eminently reasonable, and it is clear about six months ago or nine months ago they decided, we don't want all these pictures of us voting against stuff that people think is eminently reasonable. And instead we just allow them to go through, we won't vote against them, but then we won't necessarily implement them. So I hope that won't be the case here. I could understand that it would be a very difficult argument to stand up to make to say, no, we're not going to resource the fire brigade properly. I would also make the point, the point has been made by a number of speakers, because I was watching the debate about the broad public support that the fire brigade has, and I think that is correct and it is absolutely right that that exists. I would say, and this is a warning to the government, that that broad public support will carry through into broad public support for industrial action if the firefighters feel it is necessary. That public support will not wane, people will see, oh my God, these are people who are literally putting their lives on the line to protect society day in, day out, and they feel it is necessary to take industrial action in order to ensure that our fire services are properly resourced and to ensure that people are safe. are safe and that broad public support would continue to exist. So that should be extra pressure on the minister and the government to carry through with the acceptance of the motion. I want to focus for the remaining of my time actually on a particular issue, which again is featured reasonably prominently in the debate, which is the whole question of high rise buildings or tall and complex buildings, as I think firefighters refer to them as. It was reported in August of this year by firefighter John Mann, speaking to the Dublin Enquirer, that Dublin Fire Brigade does not have the training or equipment that it needs to tackle blazes in high rise buildings. Essentially there are two issues, as I understand from speaking to fire brigade personnel. First issue is training and the second issue is equipment, and the second issue is equipment, aerial appliances. But there is a, you know, if you look at the development of Dublin as a city, you have, you know, a moderately dense city centre, then relatively low density to the outskirts, and then at the outskirts, you have a proliferation in Tala, in Blancherstown, in Finglet, right around the kind of M50 range. Right around the kind of M50 ring, you have a proliferation of reasonably high rise development, six, seven, eight, nine storeys high. And that's accelerating. Obviously in some areas the strategic housing development process, which thankfully is being closed, has been used to kind of drive that. But it raises a very serious issue if we have these high rise developments getting approved, and that we don't have the equipment and the training in place necessary to ensure those that are going to live in these high rise developments will be safe. So, the issue in terms of training, as I understand, is that there is very good training available in Dublin Fire Brigade in terms of dealing with tall and complex buildings. And I understand that, for example, the aerial appliances aren't the answer all by themselves, because once you go above a certain height, you're not going to get people out via the aerial appliances. You have to get them out through the inside of the building. So it's very dangerous, very specialised work for which you need training. But the point, as I understand it, is that because of the under-resourcing, because of the under-staffing of the fire brigades, people aren't able to go and get that training. Because you need to be able to cover the service on each daily basis. Covid absolutely has an extra impact in terms of knocking people out. And then there aren't enough people left to be able to facilitate enough people to go and get the training that needs to be done. So we have an under-trained fire service as it stands, although, of course, people with enormous talents, skills and the capacity to provide that training. But it's not currently happening. And the second issue is the issue of equipment. And just to highlight the issue of equipment, again, it's been referenced, the fire at the Glasshouse Hotel and Apartments in Tallagh, about a month and a half ago. And the stories that emerged from that were truly terrifying. People who were trapped on their balconies, in fear of their lives, waiting to be rescued. And the amount of time they were trapped on the balconies was prolonged and extended because of the issue of equipment. Because these were at a level, fifth or sixth storey, where they could be rescued via aerial appliance. And, in fact, were ultimately rescued by aerial appliance. But they had to wait for at least 20 minutes of their waiting time. And some say they waited longer than that. It was because the aerial appliance was being transported out from Tara Street to Tallagh. One of the tenants was quoted as saying, we kept thinking we were going to be burnt to ashes, and maybe they wouldn't find our bodies hugging each other. And I put a parliamentary question to the Minister, and I got an answer, saying that Dublin Fire Brigade's fleet of aerial appliances consists of two turntable ladders based at Dublin Fire Brigade headquarters on Tara Street, and a hydraulic platform based at Dublin Fire Brigade, and a hydraulic platform based at Dun Laoghaire Fire Station, all of which can be deployed rapidly to anywhere in the functional area of the four local authorities. But does the Government and the Minister really think, and perhaps the other Minister may respond, that 20 minutes while you are trapped on a balcony, with your home burning behind you in the entire building, going up in flames, is that an adequate response time? Or is it not the case, as the Tonister agreed with me last week, when I asked him about it, and as a firefighter I was speaking to earlier agreed, that these need to be locally based. Obviously not every area across the city and across the country which has high rise development is going to have specific areas, but you need to have them based in areas whereby they can rapidly get to the areas that we have high rise developments. Because it is not the case that it is only at Tara Street and Dun Laoghaire where you have high rise developments. So I do think that action needs to be taken urgently, to ensure that where you have high rise developments taking place, that you have in rapid, short amounts of time, can get the aerial appliances that are needed to save people's lives. And we need a commitment from the Government to have that, as well as the commitment to properly resource and staff our firefighting service, so that the necessary training can be provided, but also so the necessary service and appropriate service for people can be provided at all times. Thanks a lot.