Paul Murphy: Accuses Uber of Corporate Capture and Political Lobbying

Thanks, Sean. Yeah, this is about Uber. Firstly, I want to pay tribute to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists for the excellent work in publishing the Uber leaks, which reveal a major corporation valued at $44 billion, setting itself up as a disruptor, a modern company and so on, but in reality pursuing the old tried and tested methods of major capitalist corporations. One, major exploitation of workers. These people provide nothing more than an app and have made themselves incredibly rich, driving down terms and conditions right across the world. Two, using money to buy political influence and willing to go to any ends to achieve their aims. Worth quoting one of the Uber people saying violence guarantees success. And these guys must be resisted, calling for a counter protest to be organised in Paris against taxi drivers in order to create violence to drive through their programme. In this country, what did it look like? It looked like Uber writing the manifesto for Fine Gael. 2016 election manifesto. Quote, new platforms are being developed that allow everyone to earn extra income in this sharing economy. Sounds great. Could the minister confirm or deny that? Is it accurate? As John Moran claims, as John Moran claims, and Uber accepts, that that is effectively written by Uber. Did Fine Gael write it themselves or did Uber write it? Incredible corporate capture of the largest political party in Ireland at that time. Another question, does that continue? Is there ongoing lobbying? Is there a relationship between this lobbying and the statement by the leader of Fine Gael, the Tornister, just a month ago, that again, that again, he thinks Uber could be brought in here? Again, going against the advice of the National Transport Authority. And thirdly, and perhaps we'll go into this later. Thank you very much. Thank you very much to the deputies for raising this matter today. I'm obviously answering on behalf of the Minister for Transport. In relation to current media reports on Uber following a request from the company, the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport officials met Uber representatives in mid-December 2015 to discuss Uber's proposals to undertake a limerick pilot cab hailing scheme. The proposal involved trialling a service that, in Uber's view, could somehow sit outside existing SPSV legislation. At that meeting, the department advised the company that under current legislation, any ride hailing service, as described, would require drivers and cars to hold SPSV licences. The department made it clear that for a pilot of this nature to proceed as proposed, a change would be required to both primary and secondary legislation, as well as significant change to current policy, and that no consideration was being given to such changes. The key primary and secondary legislative provisions relating to exemptions from SPSV licensing requirements were highlighted to Uber at the meeting and were issued to them in a document following that meeting. There was no further substantive engagement with the company on the issue. Minister Ryan met with Uber representatives on the 10th of June last. At that meeting, Uber stated that it is satisfied with the regulatory structure of the SPSV industry in Ireland, as it's clear to the company how it can legally operate here. In Ireland, carrying passengers in a car for payment is regulated under the Taxi Regulation Act 2013. That Act provides for regulating the small public service vehicles, the SPSV sector, which includes taxis, hackneys, limousine services, and is commonly referred to broadly as the taxi industry. Under the legislation, the regulation of the SPSV industry is carried out by the National Transport Authority, the NTA. The Act requires the licensing of both the vehicles and drivers who are involved in promoting services. The rationale for taxi regulation is to ensure that passengers have a safe vehicle for their journey, with appropriate insurance in place, driven by a driver who has been vetted by on Garda Sia Kona, and in the case of taxis, with a pre-established and verified charging system. While there are many other aspects to the overall regulatory system, these are the foundation elements focusing on passenger safety and protection. Uber is considered a transport service which offers the carriage of passengers for reward and is subject to the same regulations as all SPSVs in Ireland. It is licensed to operate as a dispatch operator in Ireland since 2014. The Department and the NTA are both committed to the existing regulatory arrangements. The Minister for Transport is encouraged to hear that the NTA's driver recruitment campaign is to date 25% ahead of the number of applications received in comparison to their 2019 campaign. That campaign has opened since the 4th of July for a three-week period. Does it trouble you that Uber wrote a section of your election manifesto in 2016? Do you know if that's the case? And if it is the case, does it trouble you? Secondly, does it trouble you that John Moran, former political insider, former Secretary-General of the Department of Finance, was boasting to Uber about how he could effectively bypass the regular lobbying, registered lobbying practices by getting personal access to the then Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan, saying that he could drop over to his house, he could send him a text, he knows what pubs to find him at? Thirdly, does it bother the Minister that much of this actual lobbying, which should have been registered, was not being registered? And what's the plan of the government to ensure that this kind of practice can't be done again and doesn't have to be revealed by leaks? Thanks, David. Thank you. Just to make absolutely clear to you, I'm answering as a government minister on behalf of the Minister for Transport. Ireland's SPSV regulatory framework requires that all drivers and all vehicles are licensed as a means of protecting the consumer and helping ensure public safety. Furthermore, no special regulations have been developed to govern the carriage of passengers by passengers' cars, which are not SPSVs. Therefore, the classic model where everyone with a car and the relevant app may provide taxi service does not exist here. The Minister for Transport believes that the protection of the consumer and personal safety are vital objectives and must continue to be central to how the SPSV industry is regulated and operated. But in this context, though, there is also a need to evolve and be open to new technologies and innovation. In this regard, there is now widespread use of technology in the SPSV industry and such innovations are the benefit of both consumers and operators. The Department is open to new possibilities, but the regulation of any public passenger service into the future should continue to be determined in the context of the important safety and consumer objectives that underpin our existing legislation. Thank you. Thank you, Minister.