Paul Murphy demands guarantee no prepay electricity cut-offs

Taoiseach, I want to read some headlines for you. RTE, pre-pay energy customers will not be cut off, says Taoiseach. Irish Independent, pay-as-you-go energy customers will not be disconnected over winter. Taoiseach. The Journal.ie, Taoiseach confirms pay-as-you-go utility customers will not be disconnected if unable to top up. Very clear, very reassuring for the 340,000 electricity customers on metre and the 120,000 electricity customers on metre. or so gas customers on metre. Headlines that are based on comments you made on RTEs this week. It would cause people to breathe a sigh of relief to say it's okay if I don't have money this winter to put money in the machine to top up the metre, my lights won't go off or my heat won't go out. The only problem, Taoiseach, is they're not accurate, are they? They're spin. Spin like you tried to give earlier to Deputy McDonald's. You're just playing with words because the truth Taoiseach, and I'd like a clear answer on this, is that as things currently stand, these people will be cut off electricity or gas when their metres run out of money and they run through the 20 euro overdraft known as emergency credit. These are amongst the lowest income people in the country. They include 90,000 households who have previously experienced electricity debt, and they are not being protected from disconnection this winter. Instead, what the government is actually saying is they can go to the Community Welfare Officer and look for support. No guarantee that they won't be disconnected. And Taoiseach, you need to act now. You need to act now to guarantee that nobody will be left without heat, without electricity, this winter because they can't afford to pay. You can do it very simply by extending the emergency credit, as was done during Covid. This scandal is just the latest abuse by the prepay companies of their customers. Highly profitable companies engaged in predatory practices. Prepay Power is the biggest prepay operator, owned by two of the richest men in Ireland. They increased their profits last year by 27 per cent. They increased their prices this year three times, last year twice. And if people want to leave them, they are faced with a blizzard of potential charges amounting to well over 100 euros to dissuade them. They are effectively holding people hostage. Those exit charges should be banned entirely. They are only one particular section of households subject to extra abuse. There is another one, with multiple communications from people in apartment complexes on district heating systems. One here from Lansdowne Gate, gas price increased three times, 300 per cent. Unit rate increased from 7 cent per kilowatt to 27 cent per kilowatt hour. Tens of thousands of people in similar situations, even if they do not use the bills, they are still faced with extraordinary increases because of the network service charge, which goes on top of the standing charge. And when you tell them to shop around, they cannot shop around. These people have no choices. It is an entirely unregulated sector. So, Taoiseach, for us, this is clear. This proves the madness of a privatised, liberalised system. We think the energy system should be renationalised, run in public interest. But at the very, very least, I will just ask you this Taoiseach, will you intervene to ensure that nobody will have their lights go out or have their heat cut off this winter because they do not have money to put in the metre? We have intervened. We have intervened. I would reject your presentation of this. I mean, the measures we have taken in putting cash into people's accounts, in reducing the bills, is unprecedented. I mean, I read out the list. Those measures we have taken have impact. And the impact they should demonstrably have is that people should not be cut off, by definition, given the scale of it. Both the energy credits, the free fuel allowance, the double payments, right across the board, very substantial provision made, right to the end of this year and into the bill period of the two bill periods in early Spain. And in addition to that, social protection is there to protect people from being disconnected in the event of making a presentation in respect of saying that if I do not get X, my electricity or whatever will be cut off. And then the CRU has provided strong protections as well in respect of this. And people should not be cut off in the middle of winter in terms of heating or in terms of electricity. And the government will work with providers and obviously the CRU as the statutory body regulating for this. But I think you are too dismissive of the extraordinary measures that are being included in the budget in respect of supports given to people on the lowest incomes in terms of the variety of payments that I outlined earlier. And that was not spin. That is reality. You tend to do a lot of spin yourself, Deputy, when it suits on a whole range of issues. But these are facts that have been outlined in terms of the budget 23 members we have taken. There are €600 now in energy credits. There is a lump sum payment of €400 to fuel allowance recipients. There is a double week payment to all qualifying social protection recipients in October. The normal Christmas bonus will be paid. There is an extra €500 for working family payment and carer support grant recipients. There is a double child benefit payment in November. There is a once off payment before Christmas for 200 to recipients of the living alone allowance. And 500 to those in disability allowance. Invalidity pension, the blind pension. And then, as I say, additional funding across the board for a whole range of not-for-profit and voluntary organisations to help with energy costs and so forth. So these will have an impact. Now, if we did not have all those measures, I accept the point that there could be disconnections and so on. But these measures will have impact. Will have impact in terms of this. And we need to, you know, we will keep monitoring this in terms of how it works out in terms of the reality. We have an idea in terms of the future pricing as to where the costs could go or price rises could go in early spring in particular and towards the end of the year. And we will continue to work with all concerned to ensure that people are not cut off. And we do not agree at this stage with the idea that it would nationalise the entire energy system. And that would have enormous cost implications as well, which I think would have to be worked out. And I do not think you have made any presentation in respect of that. On Sunday, prepay energy customers will not be cut off, says Taoiseach. Today, Taoiseach says prepay customers should not be cut off. Which one is it? You are Taoiseach. You have the power to prevent the disconnections. Instead, what you are actually saying today is that these people have gotten enough money. Sure, it will be their own fault if they run out and they are not able to put money in their metre. But you have not given them enough money. These are some of the most vulnerable people in our country. And it is a very simple technical question. You can extend the emergency credits so that prepay customers will not be cut off. If you are on a bill, once the moratorium comes in, you are protected. You will not be cut off. But the truth is, as things currently stand, prepay customers can be cut off. If they do not put money in their metre, they run through the €20 overdraft, which is the only thing in reality that the CRU has done to protect people. That is half a week's electricity. Then they can be cut off. So Taoiseach, I am looking for, and I would say they are looking for, a guarantee that no prepay customers will be cut off this winter. And the way to do it is very, very simple. You did it during Covid. Extend the emergency credit to protect people. To be fair, the CRU has done more than that. They have increased the emergency credit of no less than €20. But they have also provided and included a reduction in the debt repayment level on pay as you go, between 25% to a maximum of 10%. So €20 would have a €2 deducted to pay debt. And that came into operation on the 1st of this month. And there is also an obligation on suppliers to advise their prepayment customers in debt of other payment options available to them, such as bill pay. An obligation on suppliers to place their customers who are on financial hardship meters on the most economic tariff. And then we have the additional protection of emergency social welfare payments to make sure that people can pay their bills. And that's a little bit safer for us. Do the additional protection of emergency services for the moment in time of the day. So, let's do that.