Matt Shanahan presses for SME voice on LEAF, access to Finance officials
Matt Shanahan asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform to consider allowing a named organisation a seat on the Labour Employer Economic Forum (LEAF) and to address lack of SME access to Department of Finance officials. He argued that smaller employers struggle to gain senior-level engagement and need a voice on the LEAF.
Summary of request
Matt Shanahan sought a policy response to allow an organisation whose details were supplied to the Minister to have a seat on the LEAF and asked what steps could be taken to remedy the lack of access for SMEs to Department of Finance officials.
Minister's explanation of LEAF membership
The Minister explained that LEAF was established to bring together employer and trade union representatives with Government ministers on economic and employment issues. The Government has left decisions on which organisations have seats to lead representative bodies. The Labour delegation is organised by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and generally includes ICTU, FORSA and the Neven Economic Institute. The employer delegation is organised by IBEC and generally includes IBEC, Chambers Ireland and the Construction Federation of Ireland.
Department of Finance engagement and data
The Minister reported that Department of Finance officials engage with business representative bodies on an ongoing basis. He cited a recent meeting of the SME and State Bodies Group, jointly chaired by the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance on 10 July 2020, which was attended by business representative groups and officials. He also noted the Department runs a biannual survey of over 1,500 SMEs to monitor issues such as access to credit.
SME access concerns raised by the Deputy
The Deputy responded that the cited engagement on 10 July did not address a months-long lack of access, particularly for smaller employers. He said ISME represents around 700,000 employees and that smaller businesses find it difficult to get access to senior Department officials. He argued smaller employers need representation on the LEAF because some prescriptive arrangements from that forum affect SMEs on matters such as employment law and taxation.
Follow-up and procedural options offered
The Minister said he would re-communicate the Deputy's concerns to the relevant minister and noted that SMEs had regular access under the previous government and through various ministerial roles. He invited the Deputy to raise particular issues through his office or directly with the responsible minister and said he would refer specific problems on request. The Minister also highlighted that ISME have been invited to and attend the National Economic Dialogue every year since its initiation in 2015, and that all organisations may make pre-budget submissions for the Budgetary Dialogue.
We publish thousands of recordings to make Irish politics transparent and resistant to manipulation. Spotted an error? Report it — together we are building a reliable archive of Irish politics.
Minister, could we ask if the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform will consider implementing a policy to allow an organisation, which details have been supplied to you, to have a seat on the leaf, the steps he can take to remedy the lack of access of SMEs to Department of Finance officials, in view of the recent statements by representatives of SMEs at the Oireachtas Special Committee on COVID-19 responses, and if you'd just make a statement on the matter, if you'd please. Thanks Cahir, and thanks Deputy Shanahan. As the Deputy is aware, the Labour Employer Economic Forum, or the LEAF, as he refers to, was established to bring together representatives of employers and trade unions with Government ministers to exchange views on the economic and employment issues as they affect the labour market, and which are of mutual concern. In relation to what organisations have a seat at the LEAF, the Government has not been prescriptive, but has left the decision to the lead representative bodies in the respective areas. The Labour delegation is organised by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, and generally contains representatives from ICTU, FORSA, and the Neven Economic Institute. The employer delegation, on the other hand, is organised by IBEC, and generally contains representatives from IBEC, Chambers Ireland, and the Construction Federation of Ireland. The Minister would like it noted that the strong programme for Government commitments to the broader question of social dialogue. As a Government, we are interested in the new models of sectoral engagement, and will utilise public consultations and citizens' assemblies, while strengthening existing mechanisms, such as the National Economic Dialogue and the LEAF. I would now like to address the second part of your question, Deputy, regarding access for SMEs to Department of Finance officials. I have inquired with the Department of Finance, and I am informed that officials engaged with business representatives bodies on an ongoing basis, having attended various events in regard over the years. The most recent of these engagements was a meeting of the SME and State Bodies Group, that was jointly chaired by the Tanisha and the Minister for Finance, on the 10th of July 2020, which was also attended by business representatives groups, as well as officials. This is a programme for government commitment, and is focusing on the challenges facing our SME sector as the economy reopens. In addition, the Department of Finance conducts a survey of over 1,500 SMEs, the largest of its kind in the country, on a biannual basis, to understand the issues facing SMEs, especially in relation to access to credit and related matters. Finally, the Minister for Public Expenditure would also like to point out that the ISME have been invited to and attend the National Economic Dialogue every year, since it was initiated in 2015. All organisations are, of course, welcome to make pre-budget submissions, which will be considered as part of the Budgetary Dialogue. Thank you. Thank you, Minister. I might point out to you, Minister, that I believe the engagement that you spoke about on the 10th of July, I was speaking about the lack of engagement that has gone on for many months and longer before that. I think ISME represent probably somewhere about 700,000 employees, quite a large number of a very small sector of our SME, the smaller employers, and they find it very difficult to get any access. And in actual fact, what I was referencing was the unavailability of senior Department of Officials to the ISME representatives, and therefore to smaller business. I would point out to you that IBEC is a far larger grouping and a large number of IBECs would be considered larger employers, certainly 40, 50 plus. And I think the small people who operate small business in this country need to have a voice on the leaf. Some of the prescriptive arrangements that come out of the leaf are forced onto smaller SMEs in terms of employment law and taxation, et cetera. I think they're entitled to have a voice there, and I hope that you will expedite that in the near future. Thank you, Deputy Minister. Thanks very much, Deputy. Look, the point that you raised, I'll obviously re-communicate it to Minister McGrath. I would point out, though, that certainly in the last government, and I know it's a commitment in this government as well, that SMEs did access regularly. For instance, former Minister for Enterprise, Heather Humphreys, I know that Curran Tarnished as well, and even in my own role, which has now been taken over by Minister Smith, and I wish him well, in my own role as formerly as Minister of Responsibility for Procurement, ISME had regular access both to myself and to senior officials in the Office of Government Procurement. So if there's a particular issue, I think it can obviously be communicated either through my office or directly to Minister McGrath. But as I said, you know, at the outset, both the Labour delegation and the employer delegation were laid out by both the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and IBEC, from which my understanding is that would be normal practice. But if there's this particular problem that Deputy Shanahan that you want to raise, and you don't particularly want to raise it here in the Dáil, I have no difficulty whatsoever in referring it back to Minister McGrath. Thank you.
Thank you for downloading 🙏
If you publish this material on social media, we would be very grateful if you tagged VideoParliament. It helps us reach more people and keep building a transparent archive of Irish politics.
